Curse

flamingmarmo · Apr 14, 2006, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Currently running a proper beast mastery build is not exactly easy to do due to both dodgy AI and the fact that it can be extremely skill heavy before you even add in attack skills, a typical build will need:
Human Res
charm
comfort
self heal/defense
for any kind of decent damage call of haste(disputable but without it is like running a hammer warrior without and ias stance not very feasable)
Thats 4-6 slots before any attacks
However merging charm and comfort could be a little overpowered allowing you an extra body, half decent tank and damage for 1 slot.
Pets are also often abused by bringing them to body block or simply die IE b/p tombs groups and iway.
I'm suggesting scraping the skill charm animal , in its current form, and link whether you can take a pet to the amount of points in beast mastery. So for example to be able to take a pet on a L20 character you would be required to have at least 10 points in beast mastery. However lower level characters the minimum required would have to be lower since otherwise you could never take a pet before ascension and 15 att point quests will any real sucess.
Doing this would free up the charm animal slot for something more useful, make it harder to run builds that simply abuse pets Linking attributes to whether you can bring a pet would hopefully make b/p and iway harder to run without affecting real beast masters.
Also some players get put off pets thinking they are week because they try them with very few points in beast mastery. Having a minimum requirement will mean that their pet will be doing decent damage and hopefully they will se they can be useful rather than writing them off as a waste of space.

Charm animal could also be changed so that it simply captures a pet in much the same way signet of capture works.
Thoughts?
Edit: please move to sardelac I posted in the wrong forum by accident

Jagflame · Apr 14, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

/not signed

I think you have a decent concept, but I don't agree with it as a whole.

First off, "abuse groups", as you call them, shouldn't and don't need to be nerfed simply because you're "treating the pets badly". In my opinion, that's stupid. This is a videogame, it's not like it causes real animals to be hurt.

I do agree that right now pets take up a lot of skill space. You pretty much have to have both charm and comfort to take an animal, that leaves only five skills for your build (-1 for rez signet).

However, having to bring 10 attributes in beast mastery to take a pet is madness. Ten attributes is actually quite a bit and, in my opinion, is worse than filling two of my skills. I think this would just end up in pets being considered even more worthless. Only a few dedicated rangers that have builds based around their pet (and already would have 10+ attributes in beast master) would bring one.

A better solution would be to just make Charm Animal a pet rez and make Comfort Animal a straight heal. This would make Comfort not absolutely necessary, but still helpful.

Mordakai · Apr 14, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Yeah, they shouldn't get rid of the Charm Animal skill because it does have a place in the game without needing any points in beastmastery.

I read another idea to make an item or armor that will replace the Charm Animal skill IF your Bestmastery is 13 or higher (basically, the Sentinel armor idea). This would just be for Beastmasters to make their builds more viable, but it wouldn't effect other builds like IWAY.

(not saying that I agree with that idea either, but it's better than this one, IMO)

/not signed

Rayea · Apr 14, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

/not signes in current form

i know that a beastmaster is hard to do *properly*, but the fact that charm animal and comfort animal are both needed to use creatures is one reason why a lot of people i know are no longer playing.

i mean, there isnt realy a single class that has to loose 2 whole slots simply to use a special skill like rangers.
perhaps make an item....

ranger mask of beast calling.
allows you to take your pet with you without keeping 2 slots tied up with charm animal and comfort animal.

however, if you wanted to get a new pet, you would still have to pop charm back in.

so you loose the stacking ability rune from the mask.....i think its more important to fix the fact that a ranger is basically hampered if they take their pet along.

Goonter · Apr 14, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

I believe you have a valid point, but I dont think your solution the better of the ones Ive come across.
Comfort Animal and Res Signet are two of the most annoying skills imo because of their nessecity. They work well, but they also redue your skill bar more than any other skills.
There are ideas out there about it.
But as long as people keep bringing up the point (this subject keeps poping up), weither they provide a working solution or not, at least they are ringing a bell that something is not fun with the current set up.

rancidgoat · Apr 14, 2006, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

/not signes in current form

ranger mask of beast calling.
allows you to take your pet with you without keeping 2 slots tied up with charm animal and comfort animal.

so if i get the beast calling mask i will only have to equip comfort animal to equip my pet?

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 14, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

This has been suggested before not too long ago.

Only thing I would like to see is either transfer the rez part of comfort animal over to charm animal or take the pet bringing part of charm animal over to comfort animal (I prefer tha later). So you only need one skill in your skill bar to bring the pet.

fiery · Apr 14, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Nope charm animal SHOULD stay on bar skill forever.

Dougal Kronik · Apr 14, 2006, 08:22 PM // 20:22

What if they made an Elite like Maintain Animal that acted as Charm/Comfort. Still expensive to lose your elite slot but frees one slot and has a use while playing.

The only thing I don't like about Charm Animal is that I can't use it. I know it's working because I have my pet - but I'd like to click on the skill to do something.

Undivine · Apr 14, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Don't forget about the lower levels. The way you suggest it should be, nobody will be able to use Beast Mastery until they get to a fairly high level. Well that sucks. The whole point of leveling up to 20 is to "grow up" with your skills and gradually figure out the strategies. I have a monk that I made a very long time ago, but I have no idea how to work Smite skills and I don't even know what most of them do. I never "grew up" with them.

I think ANet saw this problem when they made the game, which is why Comfort Animal is a heal and a res all in one. I'm not entirely sure how to solve this problem. Perhaps combine Call of Haste with a damage skill of some kind (in an almost adrenaline-esque sort of way). I think Charm Animal should stay though, because I personally would like to see my suggestion implimented, which solves the AI problem.

What Jagflame doesn't get is that using your pet as nothing more than fodder for necros and IWAY isn't neccessarily a bum strategy; it's just a demonstration of how sad Beast Mastery is that fodder is the only practical use people have been able to make out of it.

BahamutKaiser · Apr 15, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

A skill slot is a make or break addition to a build, the ability to run a build with an entirely extra skill slot along with your pet because you don't need Charm Animal is always broken.

First of all you don't need comfort animal, pets are naturally resilient, last priority targets, and cost less to use skills, wile I think the cost of Comfort animal should be cheaper, even though it serves a double purpose, regularly curing or raising your animal should be cheaper then it is for humans, and Orison of healing cost 5 energy. If you simply read the description of Comfort animal you get the ability to raise and heal your pet in one skill slot, doing this for a human cost a minimum of 2 skill slots no matter what. But Like I just said Comfort animal isn't a neccissary skill, only one person out of a usual 8 man PvE, GvG or HoH team needs to bring Revive animal in order to ensure that anyones pet can be revived. This is no different then any other class who decides to leave revive out of his build because he depends on others to cover it, and instead opts for another skill. And most healing spells can be casted on a Pet, having an extra body to absorb damage on the field also means an extra body to cure, that curing isn't free, but you can opt for monk healing skills to cover your pet and teammates.

Because including a pet will always cost a skill, even though you have no points in the pet, and maybe just use him as a bring along corpse, you are using a skill to do that, and it is a significant, and NECCESSARY part of the class.

Reasonable suggestions would be, Elite "Charm Animal" alternate, which allows you to bring your pet with an additional effect, like added damage and movement speed to the pet, or permenant regeneration. Reduction in the energy cost for Comfort Animal and/or increased potency of the healing. Add an additional effect to Expertise which improved pets reaction time. Add an additional Jump (catchup) effect to all pet attacks just like Assassin follow-up attacks, that way pet attack skills are more likely to execute when selected.

The list goes on, I'm not here to say that Pets can't be improved, although it is obvious right now that A.net is faced with the pressure to NERF pet use, not improve it in any possible way. Still, that doesn't mean that certain fundamental improvements shouldn't be considered, the problem here is your not willing to accept the realm of opportunity. Having a pet without a skill isn't a discussion, they will not give it to you, at least not anything remotely like this. A skill slot is more valuable then any single skill, armor, weapon, number of points in an attribute or rune, it is the defining limitation on how much you can bring into battle, whether it be fireball, or Sparky the wolf, and I guarantee you there are less effective damaging skills then a pet, with more cost to them as well.

You need to start thinking of acceptable suggestions, and I'm not referring to acceptable by your friends, pet users, or non-pet users, I'm talking about to the developers who will follow balanced guidelines in alteration and preservation of any skills that are or will be in the game. If you can't make an acceptable suggestion then you might as well write a book about the life of a Fighter Jet Pilot in GW, because it WILL NOT HAPPEN.